I wonder how long it will take Zach to make me regret bringing him to Memphis
Last Thursday’s Tuurrible Ten examined the worst off-season decisions and this week’s list will look at the decision makers. On Tuesday one of my colleagues wrote a thought provoking post about the five best GM’s in the league. Something I found interesting about the post was that I could make a pretty good argument that two of the people on the list were actually in the bottom ten.
Otis Smith was one of the two, but I’m going to let him slide because of two factors: 1) the success achieved by the Orlando Magic last year and 2) the role luck played in Stan Van Gundy being named head coach. I don’t think Billy Donovan would have had the Magic anywhere near the NBA finals had he opted to remain as the Orlando head coach.
Otis dodged a bullet this time, but one of the other four is definitely on the firing line today:
10) Sam Presti – During the past two seasons, Presti has been in charge of a team that has an overall record of 43-121. This is a winning percentage of .262. Has a general manager ever received more accolades for accomplishing so little? The decision to hire P.J. Carlisimo was catastrophic and in year three of Presti’s reign, Oklahoma City will be hardpressed to win 40% of its games. Is this really one of the top GM’s in the NBA?
9) Joe Dumars – Pistons fans aren’t going to like this, but Dumars has made a lot of head scratching decisions recently (Chauncey Billups trade, Rip Hamilton extension, Ben Gordon contract and bringing Chris Wilcox in to presumably start at center to name four). Is Joe living on borrowed time in Detroit?
8) Danny Ferry - Danny deserves credit for trying to make the Cavs better. However, the pieces that he has added likely won’t be enough to get LeBron James a ring. The deal Anderson Varejao inked this summer was likely $10-12 million more than any other team in the league would have paid.
7) Jeff Bower - I’m somewhat reluctant to include Bower because he has made a number of solid acquisitions over the past couple of years. However, his failure to secure a suitable backcourt mate for Chris Paul is simply inexcusable.
6) Geoff Petrie – Last off-season it was Beno Udrih. This off-season it’s Sean May. Needless to say, Sacramento fans won’t have to worry about buying playoff tickets for a few more years.
5) Ed Stefanski -Throwing $80+ million at Elton Brand will plague the 76ers for years and letting Andre Miller leave without any compensation was questionable to say the least. Maybe Stefanski thinks that recent acquisition Primoz Brezec will lead the Sixers to the promised land. As far as I’m concerned, Brezec is just Dwayne Schintzius minus the mullet.
4) John Hammond - Hiring Sourpuss Scott Skiles, drafting Joe Alexander, dumping Richard Jefferson for eighteen cents on the dollar and failing to extend a qualifying offer to Charlie Villanueva are just four of the dubious decisions Hammonds has made as GM of the Bucks in a span of less than two years.
3) Mike Dunleavy - Yaroslav Korolev. I could expound for another five-hundred words, but I’ll just go ahead and rest my case.
2) David Kahn – Only Michael Jackson’s summer has been worse. The bottom line with Kahn is that he really needs Ricky Rubio to be wearing a Timberwolves jersey by October. Has any GM ever had a more disastrous first eight weeks on the job?
1) Chris Wallace – Just keeping the spot warm for David Kahn. Although Memphis Grizzlies fans won’t have much to cheer about again this season, at least Wallace will be able to take pride in his Lakers championship ring.
Drew is a featured blogger at Sir Charles In Charge and the lead blogger of Pacman Jonesin’.
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Good response to my article on Tuesday.
My defense on Presti is simple. He drafted Durant (potentially the best player in Sonics/Thunder history), Westbrook (one of the league’s most exciting players), and Harden (a solid third banana) while refraining from breaking the bank on impulse deals. He has created a lot of wiggle room under the cap for OKC next season. Scotty Brooks is improving the team daily. And the Thunder have arguably the best team chemistry in the league.
The playoffs are within reach in 2011, when Durant will be a fringe Top 5 player, and the sky is the limit from there.
What’s not to like about this team/the job Presti has done? They’d be 20 times worse off without him.
Thanks Patrick.
A couple quick thoughts…
Getting credit for drafting Durant is like giving Crumbs Krause credit for taking Jordan after the Blazers selected Sam Bowie.
20 times worse without him? Isn’t a .262 winning percentage bad enough?
I like a lot of the young players on the roster (particularly Durant), but they are still years away from being anywhere near .500. I’d be surprised if the Thunder won 33 games next season with the current roster.
Great topic guys. Ed Stefanski has my vote. All he managed to do is make the Sixers worse by letting Miller go for nothing while resigning Royal Ivey and Brezic while hamstringing the franchise with long term deals. The 76ers will be the same for the next 2-3 years, stuck in mediocrity. They should have offered AI a low 1 year offer. He would have immediately made them better and put some butts in the Wachovia Center. The only team drawing less than the Sixers are the Florida Marlins….ouch!
Thanks to Stefanski, the Sixers likely won’t even make the playoffs in the East. A month ago I thought they would be a 5th/6th seed, but without Miller they are more of a bubble team. Maybe they will sneak in, but it isn’t a sure thing. It’s too bad, because there is some real good young talent in Philly.
I’m gonna give Hammond and Kahn a pass for now because both guys were brought in to clean up messes they inherited.
No GM would willingly trade RJ for a bunch of expiring contracts or not extend a QO to Villanueva. If Sen. Kohl really plans on selling the team then Hammond did a great job trading a guy making $15 million in this economy without taking $15 million back.
I also like the Skiles hire. The Bucks were on pace to make the playoffs last year until injuries hit them. I’m not going to declare Alexander a bust just yet either. He also got the steal of last year’s draft in L.R. Mbah a Moute. With plenty of cap space in two years, Hammond shaved a year off the rebuilding process.
As for Kahn, I’ll wait to see what he does next.
The guy that should be on this list is Donnie Nelson. How does this guy still have a job? It’s okay to try to build a team for the now and forget about the future. But when that team consists of a bunch of guys in their 30s who have zero chance of winning anything you have to question what he’s doing. And he does it every year.
I don’t think Presti is bottom ten. But I definitely don’t think he’s top 5. I get what he’s doing. I just don’t think anyone is going to go play in OKC. And next year he has to spend his cap space because he’s going to have to extend Durant and Green and won’t have anything to spend in 2011.
I also don’t think Ferry is that bad but that Varejao contract was awful. Every move he’s made has been with 2010 in mind and that hasn’t changed. The Cavs have remained competitive without compromising flexibility.
Steve Kerr has also been awful. Every move he’s made backfired. The trade for Shaq was a bust. The Diaw and Bell for J-Rich trade flopped now that the team is back to playing 7 seconds or less. Then he trades Shaq for Sasha Pavlovic and Ben Wallace. Guess who gave Marcus Banks 5 years and $21 million?
It’s tough to make a bottom-10 list instead of bottom-five because there will always be a few guys who are new on the job so they’re ineligible like Donnie Walsh, Larry Riley, Rick Sund, and Gar Forman.
And Krause didn’t draft Jordan. Rod Thorn did.
Are you sure your name isn’t Andrew Hammonds? Ungvari must be a pseudonym…or John Hammonds sent you an envelope with $500 cash earlier this week. Skiles must have kicked in another $500…
Donnie Nelson almost made the list. I agree that his philosophy in Dallas is always about winning the next year. However, the Mavs really should be pretty good this season. Maybe they won’t beat LA or SA, but I expect the Mavericks to be a top 4 team in the West. After that…good luck.
I knew I should have verified that Krause was the GM before typing that comment. The point is still valid though. Presti shouldn’t be given that much credit for doing the obvious.
Who would willfully make the moves that Hammond made without being told to do so by an owner? This is only his second year there. Larry Harris gets more of the blame for that team and Hammond (not Hammonds) is just trying to clean house and start over.
He stole Jefferson for Yi and Bobby Simmons before he was told to move Jefferson. He shed the team of Mo Williams’ contract by getting two expiring contracts and one that expires at the end of this season.
It’s funny that the same people who think Dumars overpaid for Villanueva are the same people who knock Hammond for not offering him qualifying offer. It wouldn’t have made a difference. He wasn’t going to match that offer anyway.
All I’m saying is that you’re blaming Hammond for moves either he didn’t make or made because he was instructed to do so by an owner who wants to sell the team. If a GM answers to his owner then judge his moves by whether or not he succeeds at doing what he’s asked to do.
The Bucks were 22-24 going into the game where Redd got hurt last season. They finished 34-48 without Redd and Bogut. They went 12-24 without Redd.
Skiles’ career coaching record is 315-299.
I wrote this article about the Bucks back in January of 2008. http://bleacherreport.com/articles/6523-milwaukee-from-the-algonquin-word-millioke-meaning-mediocre-basketball/show_full
It’s basically about Hammond trying to avoid becoming Donnie Nelson.
Harris was an abomination. I realize Hammonds is trying to clean house, but he HAD to get more for Jefferson than Oberto, Bowen & Thomas. If George Hill was part of that trade I would have lauded him. At least he was able to turn Oberto into Amir Johnson…who has shown flashes of brilliance despite being a disappointment so far in his young career.
The Bucks were wise to want to part with Villanueva, BUT a below market value qualifying offer should have been extended. That way at least the team could have gotten something for him in a trade. That is what Hammonds did with Sessions (made a lowball qualifying offer) and now he is reportedly in trade talks with the Clippers and possibly the Knicks.
Teams like the Bucks can’t just give quality players away…something has to come back in return even if it’s only 60 or 70 cents on the dollar.
I agree that he should have at least tried to get either a young player or a future draft pick from San Antonio but how many teams were willing to trade for a guy with $30 million left on his contract?
Most teams are either cutting payroll or waiting for next year to spend. The only teams that were willing to take on big payroll besides San Antonio were Orlando and Dallas. I’d rather have Jefferson than Carter but Carter makes more sense for Orladno. Dallas would have traded Stackhouse, George, and Wright for Jefferson but San Antonio beat them to it.
San Antonio would not have included Hill in that deal.
They wanted to trim payroll. That’s why they didn’t extend the QO to Villanueva. They weren’t going to match any offer he got and they didn’t want to take back any payroll by signing and trading him so there was no point. He already took Amir Johnson from Detroit and he wasn’t going to get nor did he want Maxiell.
With Sessions he extended the QO so he would have a week to match the offer. And right now it’s looking like a smart move. If the Knicks and Clips get tired of waiting for Sessions he’ll either take the QO or he’ll end up signing an offer sheet for less than the mid-level and Milwaukee will probably match it.
He’s not going to trade Sessions because of what either the Knicks or Clips would offer. Those teams would prefer to trade for him so they can eliminate payroll in order to give him a mid-level deal.
I guarantee Hammond won’t sign-and-trade Sessions unless he gets back Wilson Chandler and that’s not gonna happen. You think he wants to spend $6 million on Duhon? Maybe he does it for Al Thornton. He doesn’t need Telfair or Mardy Collins with Ridnour and Jennings there.
I agree that it isn’t wise to give quality players away. But given the fact that the point of the trade was to clear $30 million from the payroll he jumped at the chance to get rid of him before Buford either changed his mind or went after Carter.
All I’m saying is judge Hammond in two years. Not now because he’s unlike most of his colleauges, he’s got a plan.
Sure…Hammonds has a plan. He’s just not executing it very effectively.
You want me to give Hammonds another two years?!? Larry Harris dug a huge hole in Milwaukee and it is going to take time for Hammonds to dig his way out. I get that, but Hammonds HAS to do a better job of acquiring assets.
If Orlando hadn’t matched the Gortat contract, I have a feeling Hammonds could have dealt Redd and the awful Gadzuric contract to Dallas for Dampier (and salary filler). Such a trade would have given Hammonds & the Bucks a fresh start. Milwaukee would have been deplorable this season…but the cap space would be there in 2010 and beyond.
Now…they are still going to be a bad team (35 wins tops) and there is little hope on the horizon.
But Hammond isn’t trying to acquire assets so much as get rid of the ones he has. The only asset he wants is cap space and the sooner he gets it the better.
I don’t know why Dallas would want the remaining $35 million on Redd’s deal when they already have a shooter in Terry for the next three years at almost half the price.
The Bucks would have jumped at the chance to do a Redd/Gadzuric for Dampier/Stackhouse deal but Dallas wouldn’t do that. I would do that deal if I was Milwaukee too. What if Redd isn’t the same player after the injury? Then you’ll never be able to trade him.
Instead Dallas got Marion for Stackhouse at half the price per year and can use Dampier’s potentially expiring deal to get something else.
The Bucks are intentionally getting worse by shedding payroll in order to find a buyer. Chances are the new owner will probably fire Hammond anyway. In the meantime, he’s just doing what he’s being told to do.
The Bucks were one of 12 teams who made up only 26 percent of ticket sales last season. If nobody is showing up then it’s time to clean house as quickly as possible.
Give Hammond two years because he won’t find anyone to take Gadzuric off his hands. That’s not his fault. He might be able to find a taker for Redd though.
Compare him to a college football coach who takes over a horrible team. After two years you’ll see what type of recruiter he is. After three years you’ll see a team that he’s responsible for.
Not sure if it’s a coincidence but the Pistons starting going downhill the moment Hammond left.
Andrew makes a good point about GM & owner being joined at the hip. Kerr’s been a fucking disaster, no question, but how many of those bungles are on Sarver? Is Wallace responsible for giving Pau to LA? Probably not. That’s Heisley’s turd he has to chew on.
10 Worst Owners List would be cool.
That is a great idea Knee Jerk…I think I’ll tackle that one next week. Sarver, Heisley, Sterling….I have a feeling those will be the top three.
Anybody remember Lee “Hacksaw” Hamilton? It used to bother the hell out of me when he added an ’s’ to Sam Cassell and called him Cassells. Now I’m doing the same thing with JH. Must be old age.
I’m sure Kohl is telling him what to do, but that doesn’t necessarily mean the team has to go further down the drain. I don’t think the plan is to necessarily get “intentionally worse.” It really is possible to shed salary and get some low cost assets back in return. That is my major beef with the Bucks right now. I get the big picture and long term plan…just not the day-to-day execution of the plan.
Petrie? Really? I think the majority of his poor choices are Maloof related (financially) more than basketball.
We should turn the 10 worst GMs thing into a roundtable since I’m curious how similar our lists would be.
Of course I remember Hacksaw. The funniest thing he did was continuously call James Blake “James Black”. Considering Hacksaw’s controversial history with racist accusations it was especially funny. He’s also the inspiration for Jim Rome’s “Show me your lighting bolts!” for those who don’t know who he is.
Perhaps I shouldn’t have used the phrase intentionally worse. It’s more like consequentially worse paired with intentionally shedding payroll.
I get what you’re saying. Let’s see what Hammond does next summer instead of waiting two years. When given the power to add payroll he traded Yi and Simmons for Richardson. When told to shed payroll he looks like an ass.
Petrie was the best GM of the early part of the decade. He proved that you could turn a team’s fortunes around with one trade (Webber), one free agent signing (Divac), and one draft pick (Jason Williams).
Then it’s as if the guy went cukoo. It all started with Turkoglu for Brad Miller and that insane contract. Then it went to the Webber trade for Kenny Thomas who is still on the books, then there was the Artest trade which was probably on orders but he probably could have done better than an expiring contract and two draft picks in the mid-20s. I won’t blame him for the Bibby trade but had he waited until the summer he could have done better than expiring contracts, Shelden Williams, and a 2nd round pick.
I also feel like he still feels burnt by having to trade Rick Adelman. A classic case of firing a coach with no better alternatives available.
I won’t say he’s one of the ten worst but I will say he’s made horrible moves these past four years—outside of drafting Kevin Martin. I also like Spencer Hawes but not tenth overall—but that draft sucked so he gets a pass.
Did I say trade Rick Adelman? I meant fire him. But if he traded him he probably would have gotten back Bonzi Wells, Anthony Johnson, and a 2nd round pick in 2013.
You also said Yi and Simmons were dealt to the Nets for Richardson. Did the Bucks get Michael Ray Richardson? If so, I take everything back I said about Hammond. Michael Ray was one of my favorite players ever…damn drugs! Another great list/topic would be Most Exciting Players In The NBA.
I like the roundtable idea about the GM’s. I’m very curious about what you and others think.
ARP (and others) – What would your Top 10 be? Just look at Petrie’s last three coaching hires. I’d be shocked if Westphal does any better than Eric Musselman or Hang Time Theus. Sure, the Maloofs have likely influenced a lot of the moves Petrie has made recently but the Bibby deal was highly questionable and the Udrih contract bordered on absurd. Now I hear they are interested in Sessions too…one year after dumping $30 million in Beno’s lap.
I guess I’m so used to writing about Quentin Richardson getting traded that it was a subconscious thing.
I hear you, Andrew. Four teams in four weeks…and four of the worst teams in the league. Funny thing is that I have no doubt that Q will be dealt at least one more time this season…probably to Sacramento or Milwaukee.
The Udrih contract was horrible. Straight horrible.
But it seems more of a case of what have you done for me lately really. Which is fine, but, I’m not sure that reflects GM’s accurately other than in the past 2-3 seasons.
The Bibby deal, per talent return, wasn’t very good but who wanted Bibby on that contract? Same with Webber. Those were two nasty contracts at the time they were moved.
Once they pulled the string on Webber, they had a bunch of overpaid role players they had to get rid of. And it’s not like you can blame him for giving those contracts when he did. Everybody praised the Kings for keeping that talent all together. Nobody knew Webber’s knee would turn to hamburger.
I mean, you’ve got guys like Kupcheck who’ve never done anything other than have Pau Gasol fall into his lap and he comes out smelling like roses.
As far as the coach hires, both were Maloof moves, Musselman and Hang Time.
The Maloofs have and had become very Cuban like in terms of their involvement into the day to day basketball operations and have “forced” his hand quite a bit.
I’m far from a Petrie homer, but, he’s proven he can build an elite level team. And I don’t think you win Executive of the year twice if you’re one of the worst GM’s in the league.
I don’t think he’s great by any stretch, but I don’t really feel he’s behind many of the Kings blunders.
And Dumars bringing in Ben Gordon was epic. Epic!!
Personally, I don’t think that just because the team’s owner wants to shed contracts that the GM should be given a pass. It’s all about how you do it. Like one of the reasons I like Presti is that he shed Ray Allen’s contract, but in return he got the draft rights to Jeff Green. I find it hard to believe that say there was no way for Hammondsssss to get any young player for RJ. If he pushed hard, I’m sure San Antonio would’ve thrown in George Hill. I mean Hill’s a nice young player, but he won’t make or break the Spurs, versus Jefferson was their only shot at remaining viable contenders.
I also think that while Presti shouldn’t get much credit for picking Durant (just like you can’t give Dunleavy credit for taking Griffin this year), he has drafted other nice complementary players like Westbrook, Green and possibly even Harden. This is now a team with some serious young talent and that will be under the cap for next year’s big free agent extravaganza. Sure, LeBron won’t leave Cleveland to come to tiny little Oklahoma City, but I gotta say if someone like Bosh wants a legitimate shot at a title, he’d have a much better chance here than NY, NJ and many of the other teams that can vie for him.
In terms of Stefanski, letting Miller go for nothing was awful, but I think it’s hard to skewer him for the Elton Brand signing. At the time everyone thought it was a good move that would vault Philly up to the top of the conference. His post-game seemed like a great fit with AI2’s perimeter/slashing game. For some reason they had trouble co-existing and then Brand got hurt. I think to fairly evaluate a signing you need to examine it at the time of the signing. Like when Grant Hill signed with the Magic, everyone thought it was a huge coup for the Magic and every GM in the league would’ve done the same. No one realized his injury was as serious as it ended up being. In fact, people were more suspect about giving TMac that same amount of $, but TMac ended up turning into one of the league’s premiere stars over the next few years.
My one last thought is that every GM makes SOME bad moves (even Pop & Buford once paid a bunch of money to Rasho Nesterovich thinking he’d be their solution at center after he had one decent season in Minnesota). In fact, one could argue that a GM needs to roll the dice occasionally to go for the big time, so if they make no mistakes they’re probably being way too conservative. Like again, the Spurs are taking a big gamble going so far over the cap for RJ, but it could turn out great for them. So basically my question is how does one measure a GM’s good moves versus their bad moves to decide whether they end up on the positive or negative side? Is it just based on wins? Then Danny Ferry clearly was the most brilliant GM last year? If it’s how far you go in the playoffs, then Otis Smith must be the second smartest GM in the league. And how much can you include hindsight? Pau Gasol had been injured for large chunks of his last 2 seasons in Memphis. If he came to LA and continued to have health issues, everyone would’ve crucified Kupchak for trading for a guy with huge health issues and who was now killing their cap and keeping the team off balance ‘cuz they never knew whether Pau would show up in a game to game situation (like how it was with the Rockets and TMac this year). Or can you really kill the Mavs for letting Steve Nash go when he had a history of back problems and was over 30? Name one person at the time who thought the Suns were getting a two-time MVP? People were disappointed by Dallas, but everyone understood their very legitimate concern that who knows what sort of shape Nash would be at the end of the contract when he was hitting 35 or 36? I mean I guess to truly analyze a GM’s abilities, you need to compare them to say a “control” GM, or an average joe GM. If the average GM had the 29th spot in a draft, would they clearly pick Tony Parker? Obviously not since all the other teams passed on him. If you have the 2nd pick in the Oded/Durant year, how many would pick Durant after Oden was gone? Every one. How many would’ve picked Durant with the first pick (at the time) rather than Oden? Well that’s a good thing to look at when deciding how good Kevin Pritchard is.
Okay, I’m just babbling here, so I’mna stop.
-Alex
FullyClips.com
I appreciate the input, Alex. You make some really good points (particularly about San Antonio). However, Brand was coming off a season in which he missed about 70 games because of the achilles injury. Stefanski giving him $80+ million was not very shrewd. Your buddy Dunleavy wanted to do the same thing so that should tell you something.
The Dumars (and to a lesser extent Petrie) apologists just make me chuckle. Sure they have made some good moves over the past decade or so. However, the last few years have been brutal for both of them. If more than 50% of your transactions/coaching hires aren’t beneficial/successful over a 3 year stretch then it’s time to find another line of work.
Hey Pistons fans…what do you have to say about the three headed Ben Wallace/Primoz Brezec/Kwame Brown monster? Is this Dumars (re)acquisition really worth the 500 extra season tickets Big Ben will generate?
Oops…sorry. I meant the Big Big/Kwame/Wilcox monster!!
Again, we’re talking about George Hill here and Jefferson’s huge deal. He’s the 28th highest paid player in the league.
Hammond HAD to trade him. If your two options are either shedding his contract without Hill or getting stuck with his contract then you don’t care when there are so few teams who would be willing to take on that contract.
Don’t forget there were rumors last season about the Spurs trying to get Vince Carter so I wouldn’t be surprised if the Spurs made the same offer to New Jersey for Carter and the Bucks felt pressured.
Now if you wanna say Hammond should have made Buford take back Luke Ridnour or Charlie Bell than I agree. For the same reason I felt Kupchak should have made Riley take back Devean George in the Shaq trade. If you can’t get Wade then at least make them take some of your garbage.
Alex, how can anyone blog about the Clippers, let alone be a fan of the Clippers? What’s it like being a fan of a team that can NEVER win a championship? I can’t be loyal to a team that doesn’t care about winning as much I do.
Steve Kerr definitely belongs on this list. Who else on this list took over a franchise that was in contention for titles every year and almost single-handedly destroyed it? Sure, Sarver deserves some blame, but Kerr was the one with the master plan pulling the trigger on one bad move after another.
Sometimes GM’s just have to be creative. It could have been something like Bowen, Oberto, Thomas and Hill for RJ and Ridnour or Bell (or even Sessions in a sign/trade scenario if it wasn’t fiscally possible for the Bucks to keep him). Also, Thorn would never have taken that garbage for Vince. He would have insisted on a young player like Hill to be included…just as I’m sure he demanded that Orlando include Courtney Lee.
p.s. I think I need to slow down a bit. Big Ben/Brown/Wilcox…any team in the league less threatening at the center position?
About the Bucks, if I was a GM in charge of dumping salary/bad contracts and picking up young talent in order to forge a new team identity, I’d rather be a bad lottery team than a 8-10 seed in the East. Think about it, if you had the Bucks record out in the Western Conference, you’d never, ever have a chance at a play-off spot. But in the Eastern Conference you can be that bad and almost make it in. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that the 3 top teams in the Eastern Conference (Boston, Cleveland, Orlando) right now are teams that were really, really bad…got a high draft pick or multiple high lottery picks…and either built around that pick or traded them away for accomplished veterans. If you’re a team like the Bucks, with the one exception of the Bogut draft(I bet they wish they had a do over), you’re always gonna draft somewhere between the 10’s-20’s and while you might find some decent role players in there, in order to really rebuild a play-off team, you need to be drafting between 1-5. So what’s the difference between winning 35 games and 20-25? You’re not a championship or even play-off bound team, so why not just play the guys that fit into your future and let the vets roll off the cap, get high draft picks and build around them. Because almost 10 years of .400 ball hasn’t gotten them anywhere.
Could you expand a bit more why Geoff Petrie is on the bottom 10 for signing Sean May to a minimum 1 year contract?
Cyrus – you’re right. The Bucks are in no man’s land and likely will be for quite some time (despite some people’s belief that John Hammond will be able to extricate the team from this position within the next couple of years). I’m sure they wish a do over was possible in that 2005 draft. How good would CP3 or Deron Williams look in a Bucks uniform right now? Incidentally, I have no doubt Atlanta GM Billy Knight would still take Marvin Williams over Paul and DWill to this day.
Harry – While I realize the Maloofs share some of the blame in Sacramento, Petrie doesn’t get a free pass. The Udrih contract and Bibby trade have been discussed already. The last three coaching hires (4 if you include interim coach Kenny Natt) have been huge misfires. Westphal has almost no chance of getting this team anywhere near .500 before he is dismissed within the next three years.
The Jason Thompson and Kevin Martin selections were inspired. I’ll give him credit for those two. Otherwise, the jury is definitely still out on all his other recent draft choices. Jon Brockman? Come on, isn’t he just a taller version of Bull from the movie “Fast Break”?
In response to the pot shots at Petrie:
Andrew, how can you talk about the owner and the GM joined at the hip in Milwaukee and excuse Hammond’s decision-making based on that principle, then criticize Geoff Petrie for firing Rick Adelman?
The decision to fire Adelman came straight from the Maloofs. Communication had broken down between the two parties (coach and owner) and the Maloofs felt like they were at an impasse, so they made the order, Gladiator-style, for Adelman to be canned.
The Webber trade, the Hedo trade, the Bibby trade, the Udrih signing, and Kenny Thomas’ contract are all on Petrie’s head. But the Adelman firing is not.
Drew, with the young talent on the Kings roster, you really feel like they’ll be “nowhere near .500″ in three years time?
Kevin Martin, though he sucks on D, is a borderline All-Star, Tyreke Evans is a legit contender for Rookie of the Year, and Jason Thompson cares enough about winning to work his ASS off (Rome reference) and be a good example for the new guys coming in the door. I’m not saying that core is going to make the playoffs or anything, but I think they’ll improve.
As the Cavs, Celtics, and Warriors have demonstrated in the past, any team can rise from the ashes in a span of three years. I think you’re off-base with your prediction.
Patrick-
I think you misunderstood what I wrote. I said I think Petrie still feels burnt by having to fire Adelman—meaning it was something he didn’t want to do but ownership made him.
And yes, I also believe that the Kings will continue to suck for at least the next three years. Why? Because they’ll end up using next summer’s cap space on a fourth-tier free agent who will get a four or five year contract thus further tying them up with crappy contracts for at least the next three years.
Kevin Martin can score but he isn’t one of the league’s top-50 players. The Warriors have proven every year that there’s a shooting guard in the NBDL that can score 40 points in a game if given enough shots.
The two dumbest positions to waste big money on are shooting guard and small forward because they are the easiest positions to fill. Unless you’ve got a Bryant, Roy, Pierce, Wade, Lebron, etc. then you’re better off spending big on centers, power forwards, and point guards.
Drew-
You said Thorn would have never taken “that garbage for Carter” when Thorn was the same guy who traded Jefferson for Yi and Bobby Simmons. What did Yi show in his rookie season to make anyone believe he was going to be anything? You call it garbage, when those guys weren’t brought to Milwaukee to play but because they were expiring contracts. He had no problem drafting questionable character guys like Marcus Williams and Sean Williams that are both flops.
And can we be real about George Hill here for a second? This is a guy who not only scored just 23 points in five playoff games but scored in double figures four times from Jan. 8 until the end of the season. On San Antonio he’s a hidden gem but if he were on the Bobcats nobody would know his name.
I’m not defending John Hammond as a good GM. I’m defending him from being considered one of the league’s worst 10. There’s a big difference. If you’re going to be considered one of the league’s worst ten GMs you should at least be on the job for more than a year and a half.
Patrick – I really like the Rome reference as I can recall listening to him when he was merely an overnight guy on the Mighty 690. However, I truly believe the Kings will be nowhwere near .500 for many years to come.
As mentioned, I’m a Thompson fan and I like Martin’s ability to score. Otherwise, there really isn’t much to be excited about in Sactown. Tyreke shows a lot of promise, but he is simply not an NBA point guard (hence the apparent interest in Sessions). At best, Evans will be a flashier John Salmons type player…without any range beyond 18 ft. In my ever so humble opinion, the Kings have as much of a chance to rise from the ashes during the next three years as Jon Brockman does of making it to an all-star game.
Andrew – First of all, I understand what you’re trying to say. I’m just not as forgiving and as much of an apologist as you seem to be concerning Hammond.
The Nets/Bucks Jefferson-Yi deal last year was fine for both teams. Thorn was clearly looking to dump a large salary and bring in an expiring contract (ALONG WITH a young player with some promise). The Bucks shouldn’t have drafted Yi in the first place, but to be able to right the wrong and get a quality player like RJ for him after one year was a nice trade. Unfortunately, it didn’t work out for a variety of reasons and Hammond was given an ultimatum to shed the salary in June 2009.
If I’m not mistaken, the RJ to San Antonio giveaway was the first major transaction of the summer. What the hell was the rush? You say that Thorn might have taken the same three guys for Carter, but I doubt it. NJ could have done it during the season and passed. Thorn knows he needs to bring at least one young guy with promise back in any deal…like a Courtney Lee. Apparently, that isn’t a priority for Hammond. Getting 60 or 70 cents on the dollar is fine…but getting eighteen cents isn’t in my book.
As far as George Hill is concerned…fine, let’s be real. He was a standout performer while Parker was injured and once TP came back Hill became mostly a non-factor (in part because of other more experienced backcourt players on the Spurs roster). Ten years from now, I’m pretty sure George Hill is going to be on an NBA roster. I’m not so sure about a lot of other guys… including Brandon Jennings. Do you really think Sourpuss Scott Skiles is going to hit it off with Jennings? The Bucks could have had both Hill & Sessions at the point and in a few weeks they will likely have neither.
Like Sacramento, I just don’t see the Bucks getting anywhere near .500 in the near future. They are in no man’s land and Hammond will likely be the ex-GM by the time Milwaukee returns to the playoffs.
Drew-
Where was the rush?? The rush was in the fact that they found someone willing to take on $30 million in salary in this economy. Again, only three teams took on significant payroll this summer. The Lakers don’t count because they gave Bynum his extension last summer.
Do you really believe that Thorn couldn’t have done better for RJ than TWO remaining years of Bobby Simmons awful contract and Yi?
Hill had a great four-game stretch in November and from that point on his play dropped off dramatically. So much so that he had a couple DNPs in between February and April.
We’re going around in circles here. You called a guy who has been on the job for less than 18 mos one of the worst GMs in the league and I’m telling you I think there are plenty worst GMs considering what he inherited and the fact that his boss is trying to sell the team.
I don’t know if Skiles and Jennings will coexist and I won’t know until we see them on the court. Until then I’ll reserve judgment.
Would you say Obama is one of the ten worst Presidents ever because he hasn’t done anything in his first seven months?
The bottom line here is that Richard Jefferson could be the league’s most overpaid player after Jermaine O’Neal and Tracy McGrady. If all you’ve been traded for in 12 mos is Bobby Simmons, Yi Jianlian, Kurt Thomas, Fabricio Oberto, and Bruce Bowen you could very well be the league’s most overrated player as well.
I hear what you’re saying, Andrew. I won’t rehash the same things. However, I will say that Thorn should have done better for RJ, but didn’t. Who knows, maybe he liked/likes Yi. Maybe all he wanted to do was get rid of the RJ contract for whatever he could get so he would have money in 2010 for Jay-Z’s buddy LeBron.
Ahhhhh…politics. Now you’re entering my wheelhouse. BO hasn’t done anything…except spending money like a drunk sailor. I’ll save the rest of the political commentary for my monthly appearances on Countdown with Keith Olbermann and The O’Reilly Factor.
About Petrie as a GM, I’d have to say that he’s actually a pretty good GM, but with one hand tied behind his back because of the Maloof’s, who told him to fire Adelman, AND went against his advise for the last 2 coaches, Musselman & Reggie Theus. They told him to dismantle the last real winning team they had & most of their trades are coming from a money saving point of view. True, he has had some draft busts & I don’t know what he was thinking with this draft-but apparently Rubio really messed up 2 interviews with the Kings and it’s pretty much a crap shoot of a draft anyways, but I think that considering the mess he’s had to deal with in Sacto for the last 3-4 years, he’s actually a pretty good GM. I don’t see how they’ll get themselves out of the lottery though, Jason Thompson has promise, but that’s all. I really like Kevin Martin’s game, but on a winning team-he should only be your 2nd or 3rd best player, someone who will make you pay for double teaming your 4 or 5. The big deal with the Kings is, will the Maloof’s sell the team? If they do, I hope that their next owner will give Petrie the keys to the team and just let him go for it, but if not-then I’d love to see him take over another team, like the sorry Warriors that I’m forced to watch on a daily basis.
One last thing, about Petrie and the Udrih signing, I don’t think there’s a GM out there today that doesn’t have one or two signing’s that they wish they could take back.
Cyrus – I agree that all general managers wish they had a mulligan or two. That is why R.C. Buford is hands down the best GM in the league. His percentage of hits vs. misses is second to none.
On the other hand, there are a lot of GM’s that seem to get the short end of the stick three out of every four or five times. Those are the guys that end up on lists like this one.
Great post, and I agree with most of the picks, but I still maintain that nobody deserves the top spot more than Mike Dunleavy. At least there’s a *possibility* of Rubio playing some day due to his talent, whereas Korolev has no shot of playing with *any* team because he was and is, terrible. I’m also not a big fan of his “we can start 4 centers” strategy, or his “let’s blow any cap space we have on Z-Bo” strategy, and I’m still not sold on Al Thornton as a solid starter. I could see him as a good sixth man – offense off the bench, but he has zero defense and no perceivable court sense (I haven’t seen anyone that athletic and young take so many fadeaway turnaround jumpers since Vince Carter…). At least this summer Dunleavy seems to be making up for his recent streak of idiocy, but that remains to be seen (AI, anyone?), and he hasn’t exactly had to make tough decisions (did anyone actually think he’d pass on Blake Griffin?)
Thanks John.
I saw all or part of 40 Clippers games last season (yes, I know I’m a masochist) and agree with almost everything you said. This year should be better, but you never know with Dunleavy!
“Has a general manager ever received more accolades for accomplishing so little?”
Yeah I tend to agree with that, but lets look further.
Bird hasn’t done much much as GM yet but he hasn’t gotten any praise either.
Paxson has achieved some but not a whole lot, but hasn’t been praised much.
I think people expected to praise Kerr but his honeymoon was very short.
Bryan Colangelo did some stuff in Toronto but fell a part and I don’t think he has gotten it back on track either. He probably got too much praise but he had some early results.
Maybe Morey would qualify as too much praise for what has been accomplished, given what he started with. One playoff series win to date.
I think Ferry got a tough shake early til even now and while he hasn’t proven he can get the true prize he has done all but that. Ainge had a tough ride, not much praise- til he turned it all around- largely thru the good relations with and help of McHale and Presti. People dogged Kupchak til he won several titles. Many people probably haven’t given Otis Smith enough praise but it is easy for things to fall apart too.
Rankings will change year to year but the only thing keeping Presti out of the bottom 5 right now is what might happen. He has probably no better than a 50-50 chance to get to the playoffs in next few years. it is a tough league.
Some of the other of these bottom 10 or middle 10 may be better in the next few years, better than expected, better than Presti. Few of the top 10 GMs and teams are going away so there is not much room in the playoffs.
Morey did keep a 50+ win team going, at least for a couple years. The real test is ahead for him too.
To qualify for a best GM you probably need at least 5 years of data. To be a truly bottom 5 guy (who is still there) you probably need that too.
Walsh hasn’t done anything in NY yet but has mostly positive or at least neutral press.
the negatives may be coming.
Who GMs pick as coach is usually half their impact.
Milwaukee is not formed into anything significant yet but Skiles is about as good as they could realistically get.
I think someone pointed out earlier that Skiles had a winning record as a head coach prior to getting the Bucks job. That’s great, but it doesn’t necessarily mean he was a good fit/hire.
Hell, the detainees at GITMO had more enthusiasm & better chemistry than Bulls players during the last few weeks before Skiles was fired. Hammond could AND should have made a better coaching hire. It’s only a matter of time before Skiles wears out his welcome and is shown the door…again.
I don’t like Skiles’ over the top tough guy / I’m in charge persona and I don’t expect great things but I still maintain he was probably the best they could get (Who else would you nominate, for that GM and roster direction?), short of hiring an assistant. Somebody give Elston Turner a shot and let me see if he has it or not.
For a small-market. small bucks Bucks team that tries to win with defense and effort from young players Skiles makes some sense. He has never coached offense well and fast pace might not be the right choice. I’d play slow. With Sessions. Not Jennings. With a strong offensive coordinator. Skiles won’t give that up probably, so he’ll ultimately fail.
Jet – Who else would I nominate? Hmmmmm. I’d have to go back and look at the available candidates at the time Hammond & Skiles were brought in. However, in principle, I don’t have a problem with the Hammond hire. I just disagree with the guy he picked to coach the team and a number of his personnel moves.
At the time, I liked the RJ for Yi trade. I also think the minor deal of Oberto for Amir Johnson is well worth the risk to see if AJ pans out. Otherwise, there really hasn’t been that much to get excited about in Milwaukee. Perhaps things will change…
The other really, really, really big side to the RJ-Yi trade was that the NY/NJ metro area has a HUGE Asian population, and the hope was that Yi would bring in fans. Perhaps even more so once they moved to Brooklyn (as was expected at the time but which now seems uncertain). The NBA games between Yi & Yao have been the most watched games in the world since that China place is kinda sizable. Having cross-promotion between China and NYC would’ve been huuuge (& maybe still will be). So Thorn probably had to make that trade for 2 financial reasons: 1.to cut down salaries, and 2.to enlarge the fan base (no offense to the RJ fans out there).
Also, Drew, back to your response to my post from a few days ago: please, please, please, please do not refer to Mike Dunleavy as my buddy. Also to clear things up, Donald T. Sterling is not my pal either. It’d be like if you got cancer and I asked you how your best friend who’ll never leave you alone is doing. Just cuz those 2 diseases are destroying the body I call my Clippers, I want them surgically removed as badly as anyone. And, yes, I know you were joking — I’m just giving you a hard time.
One other thing: I think past success should count for a GM, assuming they fully deserved it. Like Petrie completely put together those strong Kings teams in the past (versus Kupchak didn’t do any hard lifting during the Shaq-Kobe years after The Logo left so he can’t claim success for those). So I think Petrie should get some kudos. However, to maintain that greatness as long as possible, he went down the path that Otis Smith is going on: pay everyone lots of money and long contracts. He paid Webber, Bibby, Peja, et al., so much dough that in the end it was hard to trade them away and he had to suck it up & take whatever was available. But for so many years, he made savvy move after savvy move, keeping that team pretty solid. So I dunno where he should be. I think the Kings are nowhere near competing for playoffs, but without drafting a monster player (LeBron, Wade, Carmelo, Dwight) most bottom rung teams take a while to get back to the top. Meaning perhaps his grade is incomplete since he’s had great times and bad times, so shouldn’t we see where he can go from here?
SWB,
Very good point about the Yi/NJ/NY/Asian angle. Also, I love the Dunleavy/Sterling cancer analogy…duly noted!
Last season I wrote several columns for another site about the Clippers. I watched all or part of 40 games and I’m pretty sure 10 years were taken off my life that I’ll never get back. To quote Slick Willie: I feel your pain.
Perhaps I didn’t give Petrie a fair shake…just like the Maloofs may have unfairly taken a beating in my Egregious Eight: Worst Owners list. However, I don’t think the Maloofs twisted Petrie’s arm regarding the Udrih contract. I know it’s only one contract, but Gavin & Joe probably wince every time a piece of that $30 million is mailed to Beno. Everybody makes mistakes, but Petrie really made a brutal one there…
Yeah, Drew, last year was a tough year to watch the Clips. People think it’s constant pain to watch ‘em, but starting with the Darius Miles/Q Richardson years on thru EB & the Alien(aka Cassell) they actually tended to play hard and were exciting. At the beginning of last year I even had serious hope for them. But by the middle of the year the team had long since given up, and if you only lost 10 years of your life you should feel lucky.
That was a quality blog post,Maybe I might sign up to your rss.